3 AM half asleep arguments seldom tend to be fruitful but here is one that defies the norm.
A friend : " Why does it take so much effort and time to convince you that you may be wrong ? "
Me : " Because if i didn't believe strongly that i was right, you wouldn't need to convince me in the first place. "
This got me thinking. Am i just obstinate ? or is there some merit to the way i am ?
All honest debates and discussions occur because each side believes it is right. Any pretense to suggest otherwise is merely a simple tact to soften the other sides defense of their idea. The idea of having an open mind to everything is in my honest opinion, pure fiction. In its truest form having an open mind to everything is quite simply not having an opinion at all. It is not stance of humility but rather a stance of indifference.
" A man will do anything, no matter what it is, to secure his spiritual comfort...A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval. " - Mark Twain
When you believe in an idea or argue against one, it is simply because you either approve / disapprove of yourself for believing in it.
Now this is not entirely constructive and it is not conducive to learning new ideas but it is still necessary and has been an incredibly important part of our intellectual development as a society. Allow me to explain.
This conversation happened coincidentally at a time when i was reading a great book titled
"Great Feuds in Science: Ten of the Liveliest Disputes Ever "
Hall Hellman writes of some of the most interesting and intense disagreements of our time in Science. As i read through the book the realization that these feuds were more about personal beliefs and approval rather than science becomes very clear. These feuds changed science, religion and philosophy to shape those fields as we see them today.
Some of these arguments actually impeded the development of science in their time and although it is amusing and even irritating to see that from today's perspective, it is important to realize that the feud was necessary. The ideas, arguments and justifications thrown at each other from both sides were important to the evolution of new ideas.
It is the same on a personal level. The disagreement, the argument, the reasons, justifications and criticisms launched at each other during a discussion / argument are necessary to spark new thoughts and new ideas. That mental conflict is necessary to give birth to doubt which in turn sparks a quest to look for new answers.
We tend to shy away from conflict, diffuse the argument, agree to disagree, don't talk about uncomfortable subjects or worst of all, just agree that you could be wrong. Thus begins the process of dumbing yourself down to be agreeable.
So get out there and argue some, its good for you.
( Here is another Mark Twain gem to end this rant! )
" Oh, dear, we are all like that. Each of us knows it all, and knows he knows it all--the rest, to a man, are fools and deluded. One man knows there is a hell, the next one knows there isn't; one man knows high tariff is right, the next man knows it isn't; one man knows monarchy is best, the next one knows it isn't; one age knows there are witches, the next one knows there aren't; one sect knows its religion is the only true one, there are sixty-four thousand five hundred million sects that know it isn't so. There is not a mind present among this multitude of verdict-deliverers that is the superior of the minds that persuade and represent the rest of the divisions of the multitude. Yet this sarcastic fact does not humble the arrogance nor diminish the know-it-all bulk of a single verdict-maker of the lot, by so much as a shade.
Mind is plainly an ass, but it will be many ages before it finds it out, no doubt. Why do we respect the opinions of any man or any microbe that ever lived? I swear I don't know. Why do I respect my own? Well--that is different. " - Mark Twain
4 comments:
I think there is a big difference between being open minded and not having an opinion, and although you outline it here there is as much merit to the idea of extreme "open mindedness" as their is to the idea of extreme "sticking to an idea".
You don't need to look very far to find examples of how both attitudes can be extremely detrimental.
I do agree with the notion of debate generating ideas. However, to really debate it is necessary to listen to the other side as if hearing their opinion for the first time. Old ideas are sometimes pretty compelling in a new light.
I think Robert Anton Wilson outlined a pretty good method of forming/holding/debating opinions in Quantum Psychology. The idea was to apply what we now know from quantum mechanics to the way we hold opinions: there are some things are so unlikely to be correct (i.e. if I drop a quarter it will fall up) that it is silly to really consider them, but absolute certainty simply is not possible.
If you apply Schrodinger's Cat to your method of holding opinions, it becomes a lot easier to entertain someone else's point of view. You can still come away thinking the odds of them being right are pretty slim.
Anyone who is absolutely, 100% certain they are right leaves no room for growth. Worse, that starts to color their perception of how they see the world, and the longer you hold an unchallenged opinion that you refuse to budge on or even consider again from scratch for the first time, the more out of whack one's world view can get. Sure, there might not be such a thing as Platonic truth or one right world view, but saying "I know this for sure" closes off all potential to get even closer.
So while I agree with most of what you say, I disagree strongly with the notion that "agreeing you could be wrong" starts a process of dumbing you down. I find the exact opposite to be far more likely, and I also think the world might be a better place if more people thought so.
Admitting you could be wrong doesn't mean you are powerless to act on what you think is probably right.
touche yeager ...
" accepting that you could be wrong " is not bad by itself .... doing so without any reason other than just not wanting to think about it / argue / debate is harmful to ones growth.
And very interesting views on quantum psychology!
See? i am not an obstinate ass ... or am i ?
Interesting ideas.
I do find that it is incredibly difficult for people to hold conflicting possibilities in their minds (I believe this to be such, but it may also be thus. I believe myself to be right, but I may be wrong. I believe that swans are white, but can't ever be sure that there isn't a purple one out there somewhere >.>). I don't know if it's impossible, but believe that as a goal at least is has some value. Any skeptics out there? =P
I am not sure that I agree with your personalization of views. "When you believe in an idea or argue against one, it is simply because you either approve / disapprove of yourself for believing in it."
I do think that it's possible to argue for views that you think will help society to progress, for example, without having ego at stake. (Not saying that it's always the case, but that it can be.)
I have myself thought many times "I believe this to be true, but I really hope that I am wrong."
By the way, the one on the left is me isn't it?
You're right, agreeing with
someone just to be agreeable is rather like dumbing yourself down.
Oops..did I just dumb myself down? :)
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